tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3761321691079178688.post6151875990860896625..comments2024-03-17T02:14:05.623-05:00Comments on Cycle like the Sedins: Joe from Sacrifice the Body talks Red Wings draftjamestobrienhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16607553979777452973noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3761321691079178688.post-75937011715413376862009-06-25T23:26:39.770-05:002009-06-25T23:26:39.770-05:00ARTHUR:
Oops, I missed an @Joe in there. The '...ARTHUR:<br />Oops, I missed an @Joe in there. The 'you go too far' sir, comment was for Joe.<br /><br />@James. I guess I feel that the Red Wings teams have had goal-support in the Dead Puck Era. I'm going to suggest that to Joe as a research project for Sacrifice the Body. Maybe the aura of the Red Machine, the wizards of Ov line, the spanking of the Flyers and Capitals, etc. has skewed my vision.<br /><br />But I feel like Robinson's numbers are an abomination in his era, even when you factor in the +120 in the 76-77 season behind LaFleur's 136P (b-a-n-a-n-a-s) because Dionne only trailed him by about a dozen points, and Trottier and Bossy seemed to rival those numbers perennially after that. I guess I feel the game was 'against' Robinson, where Lidstrom has had the support of the Dead Puck Era AND his teammates.<br /><br />Though I, like you, certainly share the soft spot for mean-son-of-a-bitch D. Maybe it's clouding my judgment.Anaheim Callinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10187897108592478476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3761321691079178688.post-5652135547504589242009-06-25T19:36:37.110-05:002009-06-25T19:36:37.110-05:00@ AC
I agree that Bobby Orr is the greatest ever....@ AC<br /><br />I agree that Bobby Orr is the greatest ever. Doug Harvey, from what I've read, was both great and innovative (the Orr prototype it seems).<br /><br />Robinson's plus 730 is absurd, but he DID play on the greatest dynasty in hockey history. I imagine a good chunk of those pluses came from watching Guy Lafleur dominate the world.<br /><br />Robinson vs. Lidstrom is a tough call for me, although I tend to lean toward mean son of a bitch D and Robinson hit someone so hard it dented the boards. That earns my respect.jamestobrienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607553979777452973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3761321691079178688.post-48526925683365816492009-06-25T18:39:16.465-05:002009-06-25T18:39:16.465-05:00ARTHUR:
Haha. Definitely knowing my history on th...ARTHUR:<br />Haha. Definitely knowing my history on that one. I razz you guys, but I'm only a couple years older than James. Harvey gets the general nod as second best, still second in Norris's, etc. And I'll give him the nod because the NHL back then was kind of like the golden age of boxing: the greats were great and they all played each other over and over and over.<br /><br />@James. I definitely take the "different leagues" thing to heart, but you have to put things into perspective of what was different. It's one thing to say Saddaharu Oh never faced quality MLB pitching, but if Larry played in the more offensive, ridiculously wide open, bad goaltenders era, and he knotted plus-730 with 20 fewer goals than Lidstrom, I'd have to say you give him the edge in a best discussion. It's not like Robinson put up better numbers in the era where things were more defensive<br /><br />Lidstrom's definitely in the discussion, and of course in the Top 5, but Forklift's totally right that you go too far to call Lidstrom the best defenseman when many consider Orr the greatest player to play the game, regardless of position.Anaheim Callinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02136410235455457786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3761321691079178688.post-37042501080624058172009-06-25T17:34:26.767-05:002009-06-25T17:34:26.767-05:00Heh, you must be referring the puck that Harvey ba...Heh, you must be referring the puck that Harvey batted into his own net, huh? Either you know your history, or you're entirely too old, Art!<br /><br />Honestly, I have a big tendency to devalue the counting numbers of those who played before the 90's (like Orr). Part of that is justified because of the higher scoring rates at the time, but part of that also is that I can't watch an old game like that without being dumbfounded by how bad the goalies were. I'd have to do some actual research to back up a claim of Lidstrom as best defenseman ever, but I don't think its unfair to say that he's at least in the discussion. I certainly don't think he has to be confined to a "best defensive-defenseman" criteria, cause Lidstrom is definitely a pretty good offensive threat too.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12892367633984292438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3761321691079178688.post-47337637720721062662009-06-25T14:56:22.294-05:002009-06-25T14:56:22.294-05:00It's impossible (for me at least) to compare L...It's impossible (for me at least) to compare Larry Robinson/Bobby Orr (guys who played in a completely different league, really) to Nicklas Lidstrom.<br /><br />Mind you, it's fun. Just saying.jamestobrienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607553979777452973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3761321691079178688.post-83588060923782805952009-06-25T14:15:49.285-05:002009-06-25T14:15:49.285-05:00ARTHUR:
I anticipated an "I meant defensive-d...ARTHUR:<br />I anticipated an "I meant defensive-defenseman" comment, which saves you from having to compare him to Orr or Bourque (though seriously, Orr could play D). And saying Doug Harvey would probably cause you to agree just because he won you a Stanley Cup. Robinson seemed the safe counter, using a guy I'd seen in my lifetime. Though, seriously, Doug Harvey, right?Anaheim Callinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02136410235455457786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3761321691079178688.post-86038501791368485882009-06-25T14:08:07.375-05:002009-06-25T14:08:07.375-05:00Putting Lidstrom behind Larry Robinson? That was ...Putting Lidstrom behind Larry Robinson? That was unexpected. I figured I'd hear something like Forklift said about Bobby Orr, but I didn't expect Larry Robinson.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12892367633984292438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3761321691079178688.post-76563776539436754182009-06-25T12:21:26.863-05:002009-06-25T12:21:26.863-05:00ARTHUR:
Hear, Hear. Even amongst defensive-defens...ARTHUR:<br />Hear, Hear. Even amongst defensive-defenseman, Lidstrom's second to Robinson on my list. You can scoff at that if you'd like, Joe. But he played when the game was wide open and finished his career +730.Anaheim Callinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02136410235455457786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3761321691079178688.post-66559619987661374902009-06-25T11:32:47.177-05:002009-06-25T11:32:47.177-05:00I don't think the Red Wings drafted Bobby Orr....I don't think the Red Wings drafted Bobby Orr...Forklifthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06173873626296545623noreply@blogger.com